Brake upgrades E12 base

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ternandofoledo
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Location: Brazil

Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

Hello everyone!
How are you?

Thanks for joining me in this adventure and sorry to post in this forum only by having an E12 so far.

Since there are E12 based E24s, and I went to various forums trying to find an answer for this matter, I found here the most interesting posts and would like to ask for some help.

I've read all the posts and articles here about the upgrades to the E12 brakes. My system is the well known dual circuit in the front, and 4 pot calipers, but with Drum Brakes in the back.

I was after some 4 pot brembos to the front, to manage a bigger disk, but with all the reading, it seems to me that the original caliper have more than enough clamping force - but I dont know if, and how, I could put 330x24mm disks in the front, adapting the existing mounting point with an 'extensor'. A lot of other options were described, but I think that would involve bigger modifications, or am I crazy? I'm totally open here to discuss other options, like E34 540i ones, but I was afraid to increase too much the clamping.

To the back I was searching and wanted to make an E28 rear swap, but in Brazil we just don't have this kind of spares (we got, mainly E34 and 'newer' models). This would allow a lot of easy swaps, but I will have to stick to the original trailing arm, I believe.

I found some Mini Cooper rear calipers, which have the hand brake integrated, and would help a lot since I would have to adapt the inner part of the handbrake. They have 36mm pistons, and I was thinking of some 300x20mm disks, which were some that I could find easily in my market. Any ideas in this matter? Would it work? And how could I make this in the safest way?

My wheels are MK Motorspot 17x8.5, which I bought just to accomodade some better brakes.

I understand that there are a lot of other factors in play, but I'm making a Restomod project and would like to make this upgrade.

Thank you very much for your attention, and if there are any doubts in the project to help develop the discussion, please, ask me. I was trying to make it short so wont be a pain in your ass :)

Best,
Fernando
GRNSHRK
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by GRNSHRK »

Fernando, don't have too much in the way of suggestions, but I do have a question for you :-k

You stated that your E12 (presumed to be a first gen 5er...) has drum rear brakes :-?

Not doubting you, but that's "almost" hard to believe [-(

Here in the states, E12 5ers did not have the vented rotors out back that the series I (E12 based 6ers) have, but did have rear disks with solid rotors =D>

Any chance for a photo [-o<

I have attached a shot of my rear brakes, think you have revived an old thread, wherein there's a pic of my front brakes :roll:

Bottom line, presuming you can "upgrade" to stock rear disks, my advice would be decent rotors, perhaps cross drilled, better pads (I'm partial to PBR/Axxis) and braided SS lines to replace the rubber ones \:D/
Attachments
Rear Brakes.jpg
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:mrgreen:
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ternandofoledo
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Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

Hey, not a problem :)

Its a 520, 74 E12, I will attach some pics to help illustrate.

And yes, one of the posts is the one with your front brakes hahaha

I was thiking in using cross drilled 300x20mm in the back, with that Mini Cooper S 2015 rear caliper, so I can manage to have the hand brake in the caliper and solve this issue as well, but dont know which way I could do it in the safest way. Thats why im totally open to any other ideas as well.

About the front, do you think its a good idea to keep the og calipers and increase rotor size?

Thanks a lot!

Best,
Fernando
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GRNSHRK
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by GRNSHRK »

Well, I'll be damned :oops:

Now that's a very early 5er :shock:

I'm no expert, but I don't see how you can go from drums to disks without the proper subframe to mount everything to, etc. :-k

Sorry, but I cannot offer any assistance regarding using Mini parts, or any other substitutes, for that matter :-?

As far as the fronts are concerned, presuming you do have 4-piston calipers, I don't see how you can go to larger diameter rotors without somehow spacing the calipers farther away from the hubs as well :|

Once again, not an expert and have never attempted what you are trying to accomplish :-"
:mrgreen:
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ternandofoledo
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

I thought to make an adaptor plate, which would be fixed in the 5 bolts, abd have the mounting point there.

Anyone had any luck swaping trailing arms? So i could try to make it easier? :cry:

About the front calipers, i dont think it would be much different from upgrading to e32 or e34 front calipers. There would be the need to use the exist mounting points and make an adaptor there, right?
ternandofoledo
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Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

Update Time!

Looking for the rear disks subject, I've found a solid community vowing that there is no need to change the rear trailing arms.

It's possible to fab some brackets that will bolt to some parts of the drums, or even in the hub, such as the example I'm attaching here.
BFR-500x500.jpg
BFR-500x500.jpg (55.77 KiB) Viewed 13046 times
I will probably look to do something like this in the near future, and will keep updates here.

Regarding the front, I'm still looking what to do. Would like to go the OG Calipers with bigger disks, but since mine is the 'normal one' (not the spaced M535 or E23), I can only manage 22mm disks there, IIRC. Is this right? Or can I go a little bigger?

Thanks for the attention! :)

Best,
Fernando
bpoliakoff
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by bpoliakoff »

Early E24 trailing arms and hubs will fit, BUT, they will push the wheels out a bit. With this you can use the 2 pot rear calipers that match the 4 pot fronts. That brake setup will stop a freight train so I am not sure why you are over engineering a brake system
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ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

I dont have e24s to scavage for trailing arms, and the only ones I found were 250usd each, which translates to about 400+ uppon arrival here in Brazil, with taxes and stuff, so its a way that i wouldnt like at all to go if possible. The dollar is 4.5x the local currency (and we make 0.5x the same amount as foreigns hahaha, not a great economy).


This is why im looking to get creative :)

The size of the disk would be something cool to improve in the front, but not mandatory (the car is being made to participate in meetings, car shows and stuff :))
Kurtamine_
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by Kurtamine_ »

ternandofoledo wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:06 am I dont have e24s to scavage for trailing arms, and the only ones I found were 250usd each, which translates to about 400+ uppon arrival here in Brazil, with taxes and stuff, so its a way that i wouldnt like at all to go if possible. The dollar is 4.5x the local currency (and we make 0.5x the same amount as foreigns hahaha, not a great economy).


This is why im looking to get creative :)

The size of the disk would be something cool to improve in the front, but not mandatory (the car is being made to participate in meetings, car shows and stuff :))
Fernando,

PM me as I have extra early E24 trailing arms that I will not be using if you are interested.
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ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

[Hey Kurt, thanks a lot for the offer, lets talk a little bit more via PMs :)]

So, new options arrived in my head and would like some guidance from the experts :)

I was considering keeping the original calipers and use 302x22mm vented rotors from e34 530i in the front and a generic rear caliper (Akebono one, with 35mm piston and hand brake integrated as I need it) with 300x10mm rotors also from 530.

Would the vented work in the 520 e12 caliper I have in the front (ATE 4 pot)? My rotors should be 12.7.mm thick as I researched, but I read it can go up to 22mm, since the 528 used it, right?

What would you think about that?
ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

OK, TIME FOR SOME UPDATES

So we got our minds decided in the following setup below, but we need desperate help with the rotors :x

ROTORS
E34 302x28 in the front and 300x10 in the rear, but here we dont dont know how to manage the wheel hub thing, since E12s have the rotor behind the Hub and e34s uses the modern way in the front. What could we do here? Anyone has any idea?

BRAKE BOOSTER
BMW E34 remote Brake Booster, due to the lack of space in the engine bay and the M52tu intake;

CALIPERS
Front: 540i E34 single piston
Rear: Ford Fusion single piston, with hand brake integrated - was the closest I could get to E34s rears

I will try to keep it updated the best that I can!

Thanks!
ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

Hey guys,

got some trouble in the way and hoped someone could shed some light here.

We managed to adapt the center hub from the E12 to recieve the 'modern way' of rotors, but we are having trouble with the spacing of the carriers fixing point.

I've seen people talking about doing this change into E12 based E24s, can anyone help here? It seems that the caliper cant be fixed in the space to match this size of rotor. I might need some bigger rotors (330mm), but then I hit the 30mm thick mark, which I don't think E34s calipers can match.

Hope to hear from anyone ;)

PS: I'm not able to upload attachments. I'm still trying to post photos

Ps2: in the mobile it went fine
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ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

Well, here we go!

We managed to find a solution.

The rotors from the 328 F30 are 330x24, with a tiny difference in the hats height (4mm), which made possible the conversion.

Now we are finishing the brakebooster part, which is a pain, due to the fact that involves the whole e34 structure and the repiping of the car.

Lets see how it goes :)
Gregorydarcy
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Location: Melbourne AU

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by Gregorydarcy »

how did you get on here?
ternandofoledo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by ternandofoledo »

What do you mean? :)
Lieuwegaal
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Re: Brake upgrades E12 base

Post by Lieuwegaal »

HI Ternandofoledo,

I am have the following the subframes here, and I am also working on a E12 based E24;
E12 (came with the car)
E28 (got from a spare 5 series)
E34 (got from a spare 7 series)

these coming weeks I am looking into upgrading the rear tot he E34.
Seems like we need some modification work but if you like I can share some of that here.

For the front I am also considering E34 suspension legs as the top mount PCD is pretty close (1 hole might need te be drilled bigger).

Just wanted to share to you and maybe if you like we can keep in close contact on the progress.
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