Potential charging issues/questions

Post here for mechanical and engine topics such as fuel issues, transmission problems, rough idle, exhaust, electrical issues, etc

Moderators: GRNSHRK, ron, bfons

Post Reply
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

Gents, I finally had an opportunity to turn on my headlights with my recently installed voltmeter gauge, thanks to meeting up with the fellas at "oh dark thirty" to head to Legends of the Autobahn, only to see that the voltage while running was only about 12V :shock:

The gauge doesn't have any graduations between 12V and 14V, which it considers to be in the normal operating range :-k

It indicates about 13V without any lighting on, but I would expect to see somewhere closer to the expected 13.8V or so [-o<

I pulled the regulator (photo attached) and the brushes appear just fine :-"

I also did a search for the Volvo adjustable voltage regulator, but didn't get any hits [-X

When just searching on "voltage regulator", I got plenty of hits, some of which lead to a link to "Dave Barton" but they are all dead :(

And I should also mention that my battery is in the trunk, Optima red top, about 3 years old, but maybe this is simply an issue of having a 12-14 foot long positive battery cable in a vehicle that it was not stock in :-?

Lemme know what you guys think :lol:
Attachments
Voltage regulator.JPG
Voltage regulator.JPG (560.67 KiB) Viewed 2452 times
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
User avatar
jps635
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:50 pm
Location: NZ

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by jps635 »

It was a few years I fitted mine, but from quick search this page looks familiar https://www.prancingmoose.com/Adjustabl ... .html#28mm
Solved my issues like nearly stalling with heater fan and lights running at idle
'85 635csi JPS (RA2-66)
User avatar
Steve M6
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:51 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by Steve M6 »

This might be just about knowing how your voltage does drop with the headlights on since you have been running this car for years without a voltage meter.

I notice a similar voltage drop with my '88 R100RT BMW motorcycle (that has a volt meter) without any adverse effects, since it was new. Never bothered to check this with my E24s, probably would see the same thing.
'86 635CSi 5-sp
'88 M6 Canadian
'03 530i 5-sp - ordered new, now gone, victim of someone else's spin-out on I880
'02 530i 5-sp - now my daily driver - finally replaced my original 530i
'96 Ford F-150, 5-sp too
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

That's what I was thinking Steve, although I may put a DMM on the battery while she's running to see how accurate the gauge actually is :-k

jps635, thanks for the link, exactly what I was looking for =D>

If I find that the gauge is indeed accurate, think I will pursue the adjustable route \:D/
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
User avatar
RossDinan6
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:35 am
Location: SW FL, USA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by RossDinan6 »

I may have posted this before, don't remember.

I have fought low voltage in my car for quite some time. I've run a number of different regulators over the years. The diode trick was first. Used an adjustable from the net. The Volvo one I think, didn't like the voltage spikes I saw data logging, this may or may not have been a problem, but over voltage and electronics do not mix well. I didn't want to find out.

Is the battery light on with the ignition on/engine off? That circuit runs through the lamp to the regulator to turn the regulator on, no light, no voltage regulator power. If the lamp is good, are the various connections inside the dash good? Oh, ask me how I know about this. Once I got this sorted, the voltage was still too low for modern batteries. Ultimately my DC motor/alternator guru came up with a regulator that has gotten the issue resolved. Well, after The dash connections were good.

My guy supplied this: Regitar VRB195 about 3 years ago, saying "try this". It is labeled as 15 volts. In reality it runs a 14.2 or 3 at idle, and 13.9 to 14 with the high beams on and about the same with the AC compressor running, again at idle. These numbers are within the specs of my Deka battery requirements.

My only problem with it is the "Made in China" on the regulator's box. They ain't our friends, I'd much prefer a Bosch.
Ross
'84 633 Dinan turbo
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

I think you might be on to something Ross :-k

So I checked and the battery indicator light indeed was not illuminated :-?

Below are the voltages I read directly off the battery with no lights on, headlights and fog lamps on, and with the high beams on (no fog lamps, of course, thanks DOT) :-"

So I pull out my ETM and sure enough, the battery indicator idiot light needs to be working for the charging system to work :-({|=

But to check it, you need to measure the voltage at pin 8 in the diagnostic connector, with the key in the "run" position, which should be between 2 and 4 volts [-(

I connect my DMM, turn the key, and guess what, the battery light came on :shock:

WTF ](*,)

I measured about 1.9V at pin 8, which I suppose is OK :-$

At this point, me thinks that the bulb is probably not well seated in the battery indicator location, and I have been running on a battery that's been charged with my smart charger and not always the actual charging system :roll:

Well, guess who has to get into the dash now :cry:
Attachments
running no lights.JPG
running no lights.JPG (628.3 KiB) Viewed 2354 times
runnung with headlights on.JPG
runnung with headlights on.JPG (516.24 KiB) Viewed 2354 times
running with high beams on.JPG
running with high beams on.JPG (431.83 KiB) Viewed 2354 times
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
User avatar
RossDinan6
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:35 am
Location: SW FL, USA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by RossDinan6 »

There is a slight possibility your measurement tool affected the battery lamp. Slim, but...

Confirm alternator/regulator function by supplying 12v to the ignition terminal of the alternator. I keep a couple feet of wire with alligator clips in my tool bag for this and many more purposes. If that tests good, the instrument panel needs to come out. It sounds to me like you can read the ETM and I do not have it in front of me at the moment, so 'll let you figure out the details/pinouts. pin numbers I can dig up, patience will be required.

Now it becomes a bit more difficult. Open up the cluster. Make sure the lamp is tight in the socket, using the meter again. Confirm the socket is making a connection to the board when installed. Confirm a low resistance path from both lamp terminals to the board's connector (the blue one IIRRC). There are multiple boards/connections in the instrument cluster. You need to be sure there is a good connection from the lamp to the harness connector that plugs into the car. I checked the connections every step of the way in the cluster, as it was assembled, it to be sure the resistance did not increase at each connection. I had more than one issue between the ignition and the alternator. It took polishing the little tiny sockets with fine sand paper and pricking the little fingers in the sockets with a pin to tighten up the electrical connections. Check the board traces, Si batteries may damage them, not sure.

It was a bit of a pita, but worth it in the end. These sort of things might be therapy to me. I must be a wreck.

Damn caps ain't always working on this POS latop.
Ross
'84 633 Dinan turbo
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

Ross, one item to note is that I don't have an SI board, as my 6er is a series 1 :-"

Not sure if I follow you here either :-?
Confirm alternator/regulator function by supplying 12v to the ignition terminal of the alternator.
But I do think that the cluster will have to come out, still thinking that the bulb is loose, hence why the battery indicator light sometimes illuminates, and sometimes not =;


I will follow up once I get in there, not sure when but certainly before PSF :shock:
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
User avatar
RossDinan6
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:35 am
Location: SW FL, USA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by RossDinan6 »

Confirm alternator/regulator function by supplying 12v to the ignition terminal of the alternator.


If you supply 12 volts from the battery to the small ignition terminal on the alternator you will bypass the car side ignition circuit. This will allow you to prove the alternator/regulator are functioning properly. My earlier comment about a length of wire with alligator clips was to perform this test. The ignition terminal is the small #14 or #16 wire on the back of the alternator. Connect your alligator clip on it and start the car, connect the other end to the battery positive and if operational, the alternator should charge.

Alternatively you can check for voltage at this terminal terminal with the ignition on. This will prove the dash circuit, but not alternator function.

I dangerously assume the series 1 alternator is not significantly different from my series 2.
Ross
'84 633 Dinan turbo
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

I haven't tried Ross's test yet, would be "fun" since my battery is in the trunk :roll:

But I can verify that the indicator light connection was wonky, changing from open to closed circuit randomly :-({|=

So I cleaned the contacts in the socket, checked and cleaned the bulb and now get a constant resistance measurement =D>

At least this bulb is larger than the dinky "grain of rice" bulbs used everywhere else behind the dash in series 1 cars \:D/

It's the larger gray socket in this photo :-"

I won't be able to test things out for a while, as I've got the cluster out, and than means project creep :-?
Attachments
Fog light indicator socket.JPG
Fog light indicator socket.JPG (1.81 MiB) Viewed 2251 times
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: Potential charging issues/questions

Post by GRNSHRK »

I wanted to put some closure to this one, turned out to be the voltage regulator :-({|=

Thanks to the good graces of Klaus at PSF, I was gifted a regulator, and he even installed it =D>

Of course the replacement that I ordered was waiting for me when I got home from PSF #-o

I purchased one of those high voltage charging jobbies from Dave Parton (Dave's Volvo page), which is showing higher charging voltage than stock (14.4VDC), and the voltmeter in the dash is reading just under 14VDC, so we're good to go \:D/

https://www.davebarton.com/

Thanks also goes out to Klaus for suggesting that I go with the higher charging voltage version, since the battery is in the trunk and the positive cable is about 15 feet long :-?

Anyhoo, all good, thought you guys might want to know [-o<
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
Post Reply