How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post here for mechanical and engine topics such as fuel issues, transmission problems, rough idle, exhaust, electrical issues, etc

Moderators: GRNSHRK, ron, bfons

Post Reply
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

Euro high compression 635 1985 with 011 ECU, so no cat or O2 sensor.
Is there any reasonably efficient way to get it to pass the Cal smog shifter test?
If I just put on a cat, would it have a chance?
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

I’m thinking maybe Motronics 1.3 179 swap? With a cat and O2 sensor added to the exhaust.
Does that seem reasonably doable? And likely to pass cal smog?
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by GRNSHRK »

This is really a tough one, as I recently had issues as well, while passing the sniff test, I have headers that are not CARB compliant, so whatever you do, make sure that the cat you use is CARB compliant :roll:

But with such a high CR, you may still not even pass at the tailpipe :(

I'm not sure where in SoCal you are, but maybe you should try reaching out to well known tuners in the area, La Jolla Independent comes to mind, think they are in Sandy Eggo :-"

http://www.bimmerdoc.com/

Hopefully others on the board have some experience with what you are facing, sorry but I'm actually not sure if the Motronic 1.3 conversion would work, but frankly I'm a bit skeptical that would help much, if at all :-?


Good luck, think you're gonna need it [-o<
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
marc79euro645
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:31 am
Location: pensacola

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by marc79euro645 »

tightening your afm spring a couple clicks should lean the af ratio. I'm not sure that would do it. Also, advancing timing might give a more complete burn. Both of these would be bad for the motor long term, but would be easy to reverse after test.
good luck!
GRNSHRK
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Gilroy (SF Bay Area) CA

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by GRNSHRK »

Um, an '85 would have Motronic engine management, which I don't think permits timing adjustments :-k

I can't comment on any AFM mods, but click away, I guess, although how would you verify that it helped, without being connected to a sniffer :-?
:mrgreen:
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Image
User avatar
Da_Hose
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3236
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:15 am
Location: Santa Ana, CA.

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Da_Hose »

Hi folks,

Ca. smog is tricky. One important thing to know is that IF your car came factory with a manifold that had air injectors or other EGR pieces on it, then you MUST use CARB approved headers or replacement manifolds.

However .... if your car did NOT have manifolds that had any air injection, or EGR fittings at all from the factory, you CAN use non-CARB headers and still be legal. What you CANNOT remove is catalytics. You MUST use CARB approved catalytics on your car if it was originally equipped with them.

So then, if you have a federalized car that was smogged without catalytics, you can most certainly add them on, and it will help. A good catalytic will definitely reduce hydrocarbons (HC), nitrogen oxide (NO), and carbon monoxide (CO) in your exhaust. Here's a good site with plenty of description about the benefits to adding a catalytic.

https://www.explainthatstuff.com/cataly ... rters.html

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car
marc79euro645
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:31 am
Location: pensacola

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by marc79euro645 »

"Um, an '85 would have Motronic engine management, which I don't think permits timing adjustments :-k"

Good Point I forgot, I've got an early dizzy setup. I wonder if it would be possible to slot the dizzy cap to allow it to advance a little.

"I can't comment on any AFM mods, but click away, I guess, although how would you verify that it helped, without being connected to a sniffer"

Agreed!
User avatar
Ralph in Socal
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 2745
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:32 am
Location: High Desert of SoCal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Ralph in Socal »

I helped a friend get his e28 M535 to pass CA smog. He had a decent exhaust with a fresh CA approved cat and new O2 sensor. He swapped to the 059 ECU coupled with a fresh 027 AFM. Motor had a fresh head as well. A bit of work but he passed

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
User avatar
smtguy
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:38 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by smtguy »

Two smogs ago after failing, I chased down my vacuum leaks, installed a CARB approved CAT (Magnaflow I think?) new 02 sensor,new plugs and passed. So far so good and I am hoping I am still good for next years test.
1983 Bronzit 633CSi 5 speed
2004 Audi TT Quattro 6 speed

Scott
brickwhite
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Broomfield, CO

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by brickwhite »

no O2 on that motor... she's Dirty... move out of Cali..
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
User avatar
smtguy
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:38 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by smtguy »

Good point Brick, and oh how I would love to leave this cesspool.....planning my escape now.
1983 Bronzit 633CSi 5 speed
2004 Audi TT Quattro 6 speed

Scott
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

Ralph in Socal wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:00 am I helped a friend get his e28 M535 to pass CA smog. He had a decent exhaust with a fresh CA approved cat and new O2 sensor. He swapped to the 059 ECU coupled with a fresh 027 AFM. Motor had a fresh head as well. A bit of work but he passed

Ralph
If I swap the 011 for an 059, would I be able to run an O2 sensor?
Would the 059 be plug and play into a Euro 011 wiring harness?
User avatar
Ralph in Socal
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 2745
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:32 am
Location: High Desert of SoCal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Ralph in Socal »

The 008 ecu is the O2 sensor equivalent to the 011 ecu. They are interchangeable for the injectors and afm that run with the system.

We disconnected the “Johnson box” that was installed during federalization work and went with full US controls on a high comp euro motor

My 83 euro 635 is currently running an 008 ecu with 016 afm on the high comp motor. Came to me that way and I have not tried to pass CA smog with the car. Good luck

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
User avatar
Da_Hose
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3236
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:15 am
Location: Santa Ana, CA.

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Da_Hose »

There you go jubilados. Multiple folks confirming that a cat. did the trick.

You might also want to consider this adjustable MAF upgrade.

https://splitsec.com/product/psc1-004-p ... calibrator

That unit can be ordered with a matching MAF for about $600 to your door. That is about half the price of an NOS AFM (if you can find it), but the Splitsec unit can be tuned to your needs.

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

Hey, thanks all, very helpful!
My plan is to add a good new cat, do a complete tune up (oil change, plugs, cap,rotor, etc) and see if it’ll pass.
If it doesn’t, Split Second is right down the road from me. I think I’d be able to use their system to fine tune the air fuel mixture to get it to pass. Hopefully! :D
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

To follow up:

Just adding a cat (a brand new Magnaflow) helps, but it’s not enough to pass California smog, at least on the dyno, where it is tested on the dyno at 15 and 25 mph, AND at different loads (the load applied at 15 mph is different than at 25).

That is challenging for a Euro car running open loop. It can easily be made to pass at idle, and could probably be tuned to pass at one of the loaded speeds. But both is difficult, or in my case, impossible.

The cat is very effective at stoich (14.7), but richer causes HC and CO to go up, and leaner causes NOx to go way up. In Euro open loop the computer isn’t capable of maintaining stoich under the varying loads and speed. No surprise, since it wasn’t designed to do that.

I tried various things, including an old Neutronics “Johnson box” that I was able to find, but in the end the winner above was . . . Ralph. =D>

Swapping the 011 for an 008 ECU, and adding a wire to Pin 24 of the ECU (that spot is left open in the Euro 011 harness and connector, so it’s just a matter of adding the wire) for a regular single wire O2 sensor, and the 008 keeps the mixture near stoich and allows the cat do do its job. It’ll pass with that.

Also, I don’t notice any real difference in the way the car drives with the 008.
Last edited by Jubilados on Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jubilados
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:48 am
Location: So Cal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Jubilados »

Also, for completeness, my engine is actually an 83-84 Euro, which runs the 011 ECU.
I think the 85 Euro used a different ECU.
So the 008 likely isn’t the right one for an 85.
The 008 is what was used on the 83/84 US 633 and 733.
User avatar
Ralph in Socal
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 2745
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:32 am
Location: High Desert of SoCal

Re: How can I get an 85 Euro 10.0CR engine to pass Cal smog?

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Nice and well done on the follow up. Thanks for for the kudos.

You are correct the 85-87 model years ran the 059 ecu for US controls and the 061 ecu for Euro high compression motor cars without a cat

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
Post Reply