1984 633CSi Rises again!

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songzunhuang
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Seat seams ripping again - final fix?

Post by songzunhuang »

OK, my passenger seat's bottom cushion seam was coming apart and I thought I would try and fix it with my handy dandy Speed Awl. However, all was not well. The cloth straps that the hog rings are secured onto were in such bad shape, they just disintegrated when I tried to remove them. I threw up my hands this time and will be calling an upholstery shop. My leather is is good enough shape that I want to try and keep it original. Here are a few pics.

Taking apart the seat isn't so difficult, but it is a tedious job and takes a lot of steps. Here you can see how far I went. I basically took everything apart and the leather cover is off of the bottom cushion. If you look closely, you can see the ripped seam nearest to the bottom of the picture.
It's ll the way apart.
It's ll the way apart.
Seat out.png (1.44 MiB) Viewed 4908 times
Here's a closeup. The heat and drying leather was just making the seat get worse.
A big rip.
A big rip.
The Rip.png (1.56 MiB) Viewed 4908 times
If you flip over the leather cover, you get an idea of the nightmare underneath. There's supposed to be a layer of cloth between the leather, foam, and the seat cushion. That cushion looked like rubberized horse hair or something on a spring base. There are supposed to be cloth loops along the seams where these metal rods slip into. These rods are then secured by the hog rings. Well, those cloth loops are basically decimated. they fell apart as I was taking the cover off. All the clothe has turned brown and is just making a general mess. Most of the cloth is missing
Underside is not pretty.
Underside is not pretty.
Decimated.png (1.62 MiB) Viewed 4908 times
I have gone beyond my capabilities here. I don't have the tools needed to repair this and have decided to go see what a local auto upholstery shop can do. If they can't fix it, then maybe I'll be ordering new cover sooner than I thought. I'll keep the forum members updated.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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A Very German Oil Change

Post by songzunhuang »

So I changed my oil this weekend. So what's the big deal? I order a special German Liquid Moly oil designed for classic German cars. It's all a bit over the top so I thought I would share. I ordered the oil from FCP Euro. It arrived ridiculously packed for oil.

Not only is the jug very nice with shiny graphics, but both jugs of oil were individually packed in a full color graphic box!
A Very German Oil.
A Very German Oil.
German Oil.png (1.25 MiB) Viewed 4871 times
Not only that, the spout was really cool. You pull these two plastic locks up and then that can be used as handles to pull up a clear plastic spout. I've never seen such over engineering for an oil jug. It does make it easier to pour.
I'm keeping this for the spout!
I'm keeping this for the spout!
Special Spout.png (1.3 MiB) Viewed 4871 times
Anyhow, FCP was having a sale and I got 2 jugs. Each jug is 5.28 qts which is exactly enough for one change. German oil made for German cars. I think I just might stock up. It's only $24.99 per jug.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/20w50- ... ly-lm20262

Get it while you can!
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by GRNSHRK »

Nice find Song =D>

But are you sure that's enough (5.28 quarts) for an oil change :-k

My '80 (M30B32) holds 6.25 quarts with a filter change :-"

Please check your dip stick and report back [-o<
:mrgreen:
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by 635sharknose »

So cool! I am just like you with this stuff :D Love it.

I used this oil, also a classic mineral oil in a metal can so it looks extra classic. Made in the Netherlands.

Image

The spouts are very common here in Europe, most of the oil cans have them, very easy indeed.
Eurol has an even more clever solution, a tube which can be pulled out, see photo below.

1.jpg
1.jpg (65.85 KiB) Viewed 4853 times
Paul
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

GRNSHRK wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:55 pm Nice find Song =D>

But are you sure that's enough (5.28 quarts) for an oil change :-k

My '80 (M30B32) holds 6.25 quarts with a filter change :-"

Please check your dip stick and report back [-o<
Hm, it seems fine. Mine is about 1/8" from the top mark on the dipstick.

Well, on a separate topic, I chasing down a weird stall. Twice in two weeks it's died while I was driving. It cranks just fine but won't fire. I get out and jiggle a couple of relays and wires and it works again! Really annoying. Once was on a surface road and once was on a freeway.

I am thinking of replacing all the possible affected relays. Now i need a refresh on which relays to replace....
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

635sharknose wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm So cool! I am just like you with this stuff :D Love it.

I used this oil, also a classic mineral oil in a metal can so it looks extra classic. Made in the Netherlands.

The spouts are very common here in Europe, most of the oil cans have them, very easy indeed.
Eurol has an even more clever solution, a tube which can be pulled out, see photo below.
LOL, I've never seen spouts like this. I am easily entertained when it comes to car stuff. Still, I'm getting more.
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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Intermittent stalling - main relay?

Post by songzunhuang »

Ok, it's happened twice in two weeks. Once I was at a stoplight and the car was idling fine and then inexplicably died. I had to push it to a gas station where I popped the hood, jiggled a couple of relays and wires, then the car came back alive. Fast forward 1 week, I'm on the freeway tooling around in rush hour traffic at about 40mph, the car just dies. I coast to the side of the freeway, popped the hood and jiggled a couple of relays and wires. The engine fires up again and I drive another 30-45 minutes home without issue.

Each time, the starter is cranking the motor just fine. Hazards, radio and other electrical works. The engine just won't fire. Exploring the forum, people suspect that it's my main relay that sends power to the ECU and the fuel injectors. I believe this is the potted relay with an 87 and 87b marking on it. I bet mine is the original that's never been replaced. Time to throw a part at the problem.

I just ordered a genuine BMW diode relay 12-63-1-708-647 with the potted base. Best deal I found was $54.70 at ECS Tuning. I seem to be going through a period of old electrical parts and connections acting up. Replacing with a new one will eliminate the possibility of that part being the problem. I'll always have a spare if the old one was still good. We shall see how this goes.
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by GRNSHRK »

Replacing relays certainly isn't a bad idea, but as you duly pointed out, you're just throwing parts at it :-?

I think I would look more closely at the wires, relays and harnesses that you jiggled, and see if you can find any suspect connections, corrosion, etc. :-k

On a non-related note, how are the seats coming [-o<

I was also curious if you plan on attending PSF this year, maybe just for the Saturday meet and greet, drive and lunch \:D/
:mrgreen:
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

GRNSHRK wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:03 pm Replacing relays certainly isn't a bad idea, but as you duly pointed out, you're just throwing parts at it :-?

I think I would look more closely at the wires, relays and harnesses that you jiggled, and see if you can find any suspect connections, corrosion, etc. :-k

On a non-related note, how are the seats coming [-o<

I was also curious if you plan on attending PSF this year, maybe just for the Saturday meet and greet, drive and lunch \:D/
Actually, I think I may look at the ECU solder joints next. It can't hurt to refresh that along with the relays.

As for the saga of the leather seat. I got it back from the upholstery shop today. It's a mixed bag. They did a great job sewing it back together and even replaced the piping and the cloth strips for the wire holds underneath. However, the leather had shrunk so much - almost 1", that they were not comfortable forcing it back on as it just might split the seams again. So they returned it to me without completing the mounting on the base. Here's a picture of the result.
Seam of shrunken leather repaired.
Seam of shrunken leather repaired.
Seam repair.png (1.52 MiB) Viewed 4769 times
So, I've got a few tricks to try before I throw in the towel. There are a few ways to stretch leather and I'm going to give it a go myself. I'll do this over the weekend. If this fails, then it's time for L-Seat.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by bpoliakoff »

songzunhuang wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:55 pm
GRNSHRK wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:03 pm Replacing relays certainly isn't a bad idea, but as you duly pointed out, you're just throwing parts at it :-?

I think I would look more closely at the wires, relays and harnesses that you jiggled, and see if you can find any suspect connections, corrosion, etc. :-k


So, I've got a few tricks to try before I throw in the towel. There are a few ways to stretch leather and I'm going to give it a go myself. I'll do this over the weekend. If this fails, then it's time for L-Seat.
Try wetting it
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

bpoliakoff wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:31 am

Try wetting it
Ah ha! I did a little better. I heard that a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol helps to open the leather pores. So that's what I did. I had to do a lot of pulling and finally got it on. Here's what it looks like on the bottom side.
Bottom of the seat.
Bottom of the seat.
Seat bottom.png (1.57 MiB) Viewed 4750 times
I got the cover back on and then applied a generous treatment of leather oil. So this how it ended up. It's not so terrible, although it's lost some of its shape because the leather is tight across the top. However, I think I've avoided recovering everything for another few years.
Recovered bottom cushion.
Recovered bottom cushion.
Recovered.png (1.51 MiB) Viewed 4750 times
Overall the shop re-sewed all the seams and replaced all the piping. That was pretty cool. They ended up charging me $50 for the work.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by rhanley 635csi89 »

Song, IMO $50 well worth it, I had mine and was charge $75. I haven't been able to reassemble the seats as I can't locate my notes as to the sequence of the washers to mount the back to the bottom. If you have photos or the sequence of that area please post.
Thanks, Roger
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci »

I thought I would try the 12qt bulk pack from Walmart. It like wine-in-a-box. Don't do it! From the 12qt box even with the spout, you need to dispense the right amount into another container before putting it into the engine. What a mess.
BTW, this was for my Lexus, not my 6er.
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Comfort Seat Re-Assembly - step by step.

Post by songzunhuang »

This one is for Roger. It details the assembly of the power adjustable comfort seats with all the tips and tricks I learned along the way. Recall that I had some splitting seats on my seat bottom leather repaired by an upholstery shop.

Photo 1- The first thing you are going to do is re-attach the thick rubber guard and the motor assembly that powers the seatback recliner. The recliner is attached using 2 phillips head screws.

Photo 2 - Attaching the power base back to the seat bottom uses 4 x 10mm bolts. Don't forget to attach the plastic trim piece that faces the passenger door. This piece is sandwiched between the base and the seat bottom. Yea, I forgot and had to take things apart a second time.

Photo 3 - When putting the seatback assembly back onto the bottom assembly, the wires for the motor that powers the headrest needs to route through the hollow tube at the pivot. I put some Tesa tape here as the protective wire sheath had worn through. Also in order to get the wire through, you need to remove the plastic wire harness. Photos 6 & 7 show how to push the little metal ears that secure the plastic harness and push them out.
Comfort seat steps 1-3
Comfort seat steps 1-3
Steps1-3.png (1.81 MiB) Viewed 4717 times
Photo 4 - Place the tensioning bracket over the assembly and use a C-clip plier to secure the assembly on both sides. Tip: the bracket that slips over the assembly with a little metal spring takes out any play between the seatback and the bottom assembly. You need to tilt the seatback forward to put the bracket on. If you have the seatback in its normal locked position, you'll be struggling with the metal tensioning spring.

Photo 5 - Replace the cable from the motor to the seatback gear assembly. You should have figured out that the cable runs through the gap between the seat bottom and the metal bracket.

Photo 6 & 7 - This is the harness that powers the headrest motor. When I removed it, I labeled the wire colors. As it turns out, you can just match it to the wires on the other half of the harness, but I was being careful. Photo 7 is a close up of the metal ears on the connector that you had to push in to remove the connector from the harness. Now you'll need to bend the ears out a little so that the connector will lock into place when you push it back into the harness. I used a little o-ring pick.
Comfort seat steps 4-7
Comfort seat steps 4-7
Steps4-7.png (1.64 MiB) Viewed 4717 times
Photo 8 - When it's all together, zip tie the loose cables so it doesn't get caught in all the seat movement.

Hopefully all is well at this time. For me, I had I a bit of a struggle because the bottom seat mounting rails were not aligned. Why? when I was moving the seat forward and backwards to remove the 17mm seat mounting bolts, the rails had gotten misaligned. I struggled to figure out how to get them aligned again so that I could get my seat bolted back in! Photo 9 give the answer.

Photo 9 - with the seatbottom on the highest position from the floor, you can reach the bolts that secure the gear assembly that moves the left side of the seat backwards and forwards on the toothed rail. There are 2 10mm bolts that secure the assembly. Remove those bolts and pull out the gear assembly and you can push the toothed bottom rail manually. Simply pull/push it into the right position and then re-install the gear assembly.
Comfort seat steps 8-10
Comfort seat steps 8-10
Steps8-10.png (1.79 MiB) Viewed 4717 times
That's it! You are done.
Completed installation of passenger seat
Completed installation of passenger seat
Passengeer seat in.png (1.4 MiB) Viewed 4717 times
So ends the saga of my split seams on my seat bottom. As you can see, the bottom cushion has lost some of the shape because the leather shrunk and is stretched a bit tight across the top. Still, it looks a lot better than split seams. While doing all this, I noticed the seams by where a passenger's right shoulder would be, is starting to split. Sigh - a struggle for another day.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ECU and Spark Plug inspection

Post by songzunhuang »

In the past month, my car had inexplicable died when I was driving. In both cases it came back alive after I jiggle around relays and wiring. In researching this, some mentioned the possibility that bad solder joints in the ECU could cause this behavior. So I decided to take a look.

First, I removed my ECU and noted the type it was. The ECU is easily reached through the glove compartment.
Bosch ECU
Bosch ECU
Bosch Motronic.png (1.02 MiB) Viewed 4715 times
Then I removed the cover and cleaned and inspected the solder joints. I use my soldering station with a magnifier to get a close look. They all looked pretty good. I couldn't spot an issue.
Inspecting Soldier joints
Inspecting Soldier joints
Topside.png (931.72 KiB) Viewed 4715 times
Next was the bottom side PC board and its solder connections. Once again, it looked really good. I didn't see any issues. So I just put it all back together.
Bottom PC board joints
Bottom PC board joints
Bottom.png (1.08 MiB) Viewed 4715 times
So perhaps new plugs would help my intermittent rough idle? I swapped my Bosch silver plugs for some Denso W16EXR-U plugs. The Bosch were installed in March of 2018, so they are over 3 years old and have seen 25,870 miles. One thing I noticed is that the Bosch plugs seem to have a lot of carbon on them. I think this is a sign of running rich, although my car passed smog with flying colors. Here are all the plug in order of cylinder 6 to cylinder 1. Note that #1 has been wire brushed. All others are how they came out of my car.
Old Bosch Plugs
Old Bosch Plugs
Bosch Plugs.png (1.74 MiB) Viewed 4715 times
After the swap, it seems to idle a bit better, but under acceleration and off idle, it feels the same. I guess I'll learn more in the months ahead.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci »

Song,
Spritz the MAF with some cleaner. Won't solve an intermittent stall, but might run smoother. Cheap enough.

If you want to see a Master of Upholstery, look for Cechaflo on YouTube. No dialog but brilliant skilz.
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BMW Relay - spendy but is it any better?

Post by songzunhuang »

My BMW main relay has arrived. This is the OEM relay that is potted with some silicon and it was $60. How does it compare and will it make any difference at all? I thought I would capture some observations for posterity.

The BMW main relay is now made in Hungary instead of Germany. Although it is aluminum, it looks like they are using a much cheaper process of printing on the case instead of the stamping on the original. The stamping will never wear off. Add an advantage for the original.
Older one is a bit more fancy and the marking will never fade.
Older one is a bit more fancy and the marking will never fade.
BMW Relay 2.png (458.07 KiB) Viewed 4579 times
As for the circuitry, it looks comparable. The marking are slightly different with the new relay having an 87 and 87b marking instead of just two 87 legs. Also the new one looks like it has 2 diodes. I can make out but one in the original. An advantage for the new relay.
2 diodes in the new relay?
2 diodes in the new relay?
BMW Relay 1.png (461.18 KiB) Viewed 4579 times
Finally, the new one is potted with silicon. The original is bare. I guess that means better protection from below from heat or contaminants? I can't tell if it would actually make a big difference. OK, another advantage for the new one.
New one is potted with silicon.
New one is potted with silicon.
BMW Relay 3.png (483.31 KiB) Viewed 4579 times
Will this make any difference at all? I won't be able to tell until I drive the car for quite a while. I do know that there are many replacement relays that are only $15-20. Why is the BMW relay $60? Is it just the branding? In any case, I'll keep the other as a spare and we'll see what happens.
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Bad Idle and Intermittent Stall - possible fix

Post by songzunhuang »

Often my car idles very rough, sometimes so bad it would die. Then the past month the car just stalled while I was driving around. Three times this happened. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I changed the plugs and noticed they were very black, a sign of rich running. Then the last time it stalled I got out and measured the sensors and the reference sensor was oddly reading 27K ohms. It's supposed to be around 960 ohms.

Looking back at my records, I saw that early in my car ownership (March 2016), I had a sensor die and the car wouldn't run. Ralph sent me a used sensor and replacing the sensor (Speed Sensor) got my car running again. This was almost 50 thousand miles ago. Ok, there are 2 sensors and I only replaced one. Can't hurt to replace the other. So time to throw parts at it. ](*,)

So a few days ago, the part arrived. I put the zip tie on both ends to make it easy to differentiate from the Speed Sensor.
New part with zip ties on both ends.
New part with zip ties on both ends.
Bosch Sensor.png (1.2 MiB) Viewed 4464 times
I installed the sensor on the side of the bell housing of the transmission. The reference sensor is the bottom one. You can see it with the zip tie in this picture. In this picture, the protective cover is off.
View of sensors from the bottom.
View of sensors from the bottom.
Sensor Installed.png (1.14 MiB) Viewed 4464 times
Here's the sensor location up top. The Reference Sensor plug has a grey housing. In this view it the one near the top. I'm looking at the engine compartment standing on the driver's side.
Reference Sensor installed on the metal rail.
Reference Sensor installed on the metal rail.
Reference Sensor.png (1.43 MiB) Viewed 4464 times
So before installing this part, I measured the old sensor and it was inside parameters again at about 968 ohms. Is it possible that a sensor degrades slowly over time? I immediately drove around the neighborhood and on the freeway and all seemed well., Oh well, let's see how it goes during my commute.

The next day (today), I drove the 84 miles round trip to my office and back. The car started right up and idled pretty well. There was no issue at all and everything operated as expected. I was looking for any sign of an issue. I'll keep an eye on this and see how thing go. I hope this was the issue.
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Re: BMW Relay - spendy but is it any better?

Post by Jlc »

songzunhuang wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:42 am As for the circuitry, it looks comparable. The marking are slightly different with the new relay having an 87 and 87b marking instead of just two 87 legs. Also the new one looks like it has 2 diodes. I can make out but one in the original. An advantage for the new relay.
My guess is in the earlier one they simply used the DIN 72552 spec for a common contact (87) for both because they are a common contact and relied on you to see on the really it is a normally open (NO) common contact. The later one used the 87b to indicate NO per the spec It's possible the 87b and 87a labels were added to the spec after the original relay was manufactured.

The (+) next to the 86 on the old relay my indicate polarity for a diode in parallel, but I am not sure about that.

Here is the DIN 72552 pin list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552
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Re: BMW Relay - spendy but is it any better?

Post by songzunhuang »

Jlc wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:42 am
songzunhuang wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:42 am As for the circuitry, it looks comparable. The marking are slightly different with the new relay having an 87 and 87b marking instead of just two 87 legs. Also the new one looks like it has 2 diodes. I can make out but one in the original. An advantage for the new relay.
My guess is in the earlier one they simply used the DIN 72552 spec for a common contact (87) for both because they are a common contact and relied on you to see on the really it is a normally open (NO) common contact. The later one used the 87b to indicate NO per the spec It's possible the 87b and 87a labels were added to the spec after the original relay was manufactured.

The (+) next to the 86 on the old relay my indicate polarity for a diode in parallel, but I am not sure about that.

Here is the DIN 72552 pin list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552
Wow, I had no idea there was a standard for the pin labels in car.
I learned something useful today. Thanks.
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Fixed - jumpy gauges and intermittent stall

Post by songzunhuang »

Well, every once in a while you can register a win. It's been about 2 tanks of gas (500+ miles) with regular commutes and numerous short trips, and the car has been doing just great. My temp and fuel gauge are rock steady and I haven't seen them bounce around at all. It looks like all these years my jumpy gauges were due to bad contacts in the instrument panel itself. I'm noting this for anyone who is having similar issues.

The intermitted stall and my very rough idle seem to have gone away after I replaced the reference sensor. I've been driving in a nervous state, just waiting for any sign of trouble. There hasn't been any! I am looking forward to a period of time when things just work. Two steps forward, but there is one step back...

I noticed a little shimmy in my driver front wheel. When I jacked the car up to install the reference sensor, I could grab the front wheel and wiggle it ever so slightly. Wheel bearing? There are no weird noises or anything. I'll going to rotate the tires and investigate this a bit more this weekend. This is the next thing to look into.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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hornhospital
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

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Wiggle it from the top and bottom or front and back? Or both? If both, wheel bearings. If top and bottom but not front and back, suspension bushings. If front and back but not top and bottom, tierod ends or steering box.
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'85 325e "Hazel Ann"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"
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hornhospital
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

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Sorry, double post due to flaky internet. :evil:
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'85 325e "Hazel Ann"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci »

Song,
You may also want to refresh your engine, body and chassis ground straps.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

hornhospital wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:33 pm Wiggle it from the top and bottom or front and back? Or both? If both, wheel bearings. If top and bottom but not front and back, suspension bushings. If front and back but not top and bottom, tierod ends or steering box.
Thanks, I like clear instructions! Last weekend was a boondoggle since we had an atmospheric river in northern California and I wasn't able to do anything because of the deluge of rain. Maybe this weekend.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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