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Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:51 pm
by GRNSHRK
Gents, I still have the passenger door card off and have been working on what was a very lazy passenger side window operation, which now is not working at all ](*,)

It was really laboring so I cleaned and lubricated the fore and aft tracks and rollers, and the window itself moves quite freely now =D>

But, now the motor, while turning (I can hear it), it doesn't move the window at all :twisted:

I have discussed this with a few members and at first it seemed related to working on the tracks, and I did unbolt the brackets to gain better access to the rollers, which were quite gummed up with 40 year old grease :roll:

But I was also very careful to bolt everything back up in as exact locations as possible, so I don't "think" this is related :-k

At this point I think it's just coincidental that the motor no longer drives the window, thinking that the pinion gear that engages the much larger gear which is attached to the scissor mechanism that actually lifts the window is no longer being driven by the motor :-"

So I would like to know what it takes to remove the motor, even the "big blue book" doesn't show this process [-(

If you guys have BTDT, please enlighten me [-o<

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:53 pm
by Jlc
Some general thoughts based on my experience with electric motors:

I'm guessing it is press fit, so there is no way to tighten it. Did you have to force something to remove stuff?

It seems there are at least 3 failure points:
Pinion-shaft/pinion lift mechansim/Lift mechanism

If you can access the pinion gear you should be able to see if it is slipping. Depending on the space, grasp the shaft with a pi=air of needle nose piers and spin the pinion. I find it odd it would slip after making the mechanism easier to move, but it is possible.

It could be an engagement issue. Can you move the mechanism up and down by hand and see if the gear rotates? That would tell you if the something is misaligned. If it does turn, yo can also see if the shaft turns as well; if not then it is a gear slipping under load issue.

Can you turn the large gear independently to see if the mechanism moves the window?

Not sure if this helps.

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:01 pm
by Ralph in Socal
I’ll have a good look on Friday as I’ll be at my yard. I have the passenger glass already out in my 81 so the regulator “should” be easier to take out. If lucky the regulator comes out easily and gets shipped quickly 😂

Ralph

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 7:49 pm
by Ralph in Socal
A bit of work to remove the regulator. Glass was already out, had to then remove the 2 vertical rails with the rollers then the regulator requires moving the rear tips into the upper rear corner of the door to finesse the motor end out of the door

Pic shows 3 bolts holding motor assembly to the regulator. This type of regulator has the plastic emergency drive permanently attached to the motor gear. A simple push-in releases the regulator from the motor inside the motor gearbox.

First make sure the 3 bolts are intact and tight. Then check the plastic emergency crank. Make sure it “pops” out to engage the internal gear in the motor gearbox. Good luck and let me know if you need more info.

Ralph
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Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:24 pm
by GRNSHRK
Oh geez :cry:

I've been in touch with Klaus regarding this process, and he also claimed that the glass needs to come out first as well :-?

But he's outa town right now so I haven't heard back from him yet, so I haven't done anything else yet either :-"

He told me that the glass does need to come out first as well, due to the weight of the glass resting on the regulator [-X

But what's weird is that I can move the glass up and down freely with my hands, Ralph this is a change from when we met up, as the drive was still working at the time, sorta :roll:

And when I tried to unbolt the regulator, it felt quite heavy so I bolted it back in place, and that's where I'm at :-k

This was not what I was expecting to be facing :-({|=

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 4:31 am
by Ralph in Socal
The problem is the drive gear is not popping out all the way. The plastic is also a splined fit bearing for the drive gear. If it’s just flopping around that means the drive gear is stuck in the pushed-in position and the splines are not mated up. Line up the splines and push in to engage with the drive gear then see if you can free it up. The cogs are internal to the gear box so I don’t think a spray lube will be effective

See if you can reconnect the drive without removal. Good luck

Ralph
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Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:47 am
by Dmckim
Bobbo

I did this 15 years ago, so my memory is fuzzy, but i definitely didn't take the glass out when I did my window motor swap. IIRC, I used those cinch clamps to hold the window up, which relieved the weight of the glass.

That being said, I do recall having a hard time getting all the hardware back in once the motor was swapped. On the list for when I retire / get fired / win lotto.

Dale

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:28 am
by GRNSHRK
Dale, I replied to your PM, talk soon!

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:08 am
by GRNSHRK
Well Dale, did you win the lottery yet [-o<

OK, this project has been completed, many thanks yet again to Ralph and Klaus for their continued support, advice and valuable information =D>

The actual problem (with one caveat...) was that the pinion gear shaft had snapped in 2, which explains why there was a circlip sitting in the bottom of the door, amongst other bits [-(

I was able to repair my original motor/gearbox assembly, cleaned, lubed and all is back together and working like a charm \:D/

I also made a new moisture barrier, the original looked like it had been through a hurricane :-({|=

Alignment is difficult at best, this job is not for the faint of heart [-X

Now, for the caveat, when I tested the replacement motor, it too didn't move much at all, similar to my original :-?

So I decided to pull the switch, cleaned it, and Wala, both the replacement and original worked fine :shock:

I felt the need to point this out, so if you're having slow operating windows, go the easy route and check out the switches first :wink:

A few pix attached, broken motor shaft, original and replacement, which are slightly different, and new moisture barrier :lol:

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:45 am
by GRNSHRK
Forgot to add this bit about having a few extra parts :-({|=

I have no idea where these rubber bits came from :-?

If anybody has ideas, I'd love to hear, not that I'm going back in there anytime soon :-"

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:42 pm
by Jlc
GRNSHRK wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:08 am I felt the need to point this out, so if you're having slow operating windows, go the easy route and check out the switches first :wink:
Nice fix. I second the check switch idea; when my sunroof didn't work I was ready to pull it apart but decided to check the switch after the fuse. Turns out the guy I bought it from pulled the power plug to prevent someone from opening it since the liner was loose. Now all I have to do is figure out how to put the back part of the sunroof liner in place.

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 5:44 am
by jsspagg
GRNSHRK- quick question...
I am replacing the left rear window regulator and the original one has the wiring connectors on the bottom of the unit while the replacement has the wiring connectors on the side the same as you have pictured.

Do you recall the wiring order? There is a blue wire and a black one. I'm trying to figure out which wire attaches to what post.
Half the car is dis-assembled and no battery to test out.

Thanks- Jeff

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:08 am
by jsspagg
GRNSHRK- the extra bits your ask about. Not sure about the squares, but the round one yes.
I found those in the forward part of my right door too. Those belong to the door catch/stop mechanism and have come off. The original one pictured was intact and came out of the left door. I was photographing the part number so it is a poor pic to show the part.
The other photo is the replacements that came off a U.S. spec 83' 633. This is a different all metal design.

If your door catch was not replaced, I would think it more or less swings in the breeze.

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:02 pm
by GRNSHRK
Hey Jeff, if you check out my first photo in the top of the thread, you can see that the leads are still connected to the motor, hope this helps as I don't recall the polarity and don't have any other pix :-?

But hey, you've got a 50:50 chance of getting it right [-o<

Interesting bit about the door brake :shock:

Years ago I got tapped in the back (no damage) and while I'm not sure if it's related or not, but later on that trip both the door brake and exterior handle broke :(

So yes, the brake has been replaced, I surmise that those circular rubber bits fell off at the time and were sitting in the bottom of the door ever since :roll:

Re: Power window motor removal - series 1 type

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:26 pm
by jsspagg
GRNSHRK- the one I pulled is the same as the one you refer to with the wires connected. I understand how that style connects as I marked configuration when pulled. The replacement is different. But yes 50/50.

Another thought is if it is backward, turn the switch 180 degrees where it sits on the card 🤔